is it possible for the human mind to really understand what god is?.
think about all those trillions of centries that god was alone, with no need for a language, as there were no objects to name, no one to converse with, nothing to do.
there were no subjects to hate and kill, no one to love and bless, no satan opposer to battle, sort of like being dead.
ashitaka-
Don't know if you are a Star Trek fan, but I think IF there is a GOd, then God would be a lot like the character Q. A being from a race that would seem to be omnipotent and all-mighty to humans.
The universe is a big place to us. But, maybe OUR universe is a marble under some kid's bed. Maybe the WT was on to something when they used to teach Jehovah God was an astronaut from a galaxy far,far away...
i am enclosing a copy of a recent letter that i sent to the governing body.
the purpose of this letter is to establish clearly that our requests are simple and the purpose is to protect jw children.
if you agree with the points stated i encourage you to print out a copy of this letter and write at the bottom:.
YK,
many of whom are homosexuals and adulterers and fornicators, in short, mere unclean dogs in Jehovah's eyes.and yet you still hang out with us anyway.
This reminds me of something I read on H20 back in 1999(!). It was Focus describing Kent (in good fun). The geist of it was something like:
Kent was such a demon-crazed apostate: a JW wouldn't dare eat from a microwave that Kent came within 20 meters of lest they by affected by the "disgusting thing."
After that I looked at his picture on his website and -- yikes! I thought 30 meters would be safer. :-)
uncy
to set the mood: think of the lavish $1 million dollar chandelier in the stanley theater, think of the lavish settings of patterson, think of any excess bankrolled by those morally bankrupt geezers in crooklyn.. now, any of you catch the back cover of the feb 1, 2002 wt?
the title is "wise in their own way" and it's about these impoverished african kids who donate to the society from their lunch money.. from the article:.
unknown to their parents, emmanuel, michael, and uchei, their nine-year-old sister, have been saving part of their lunch money and putting it into the boxes.
to set the mood: think of the lavish $1 million dollar chandelier in the Stanley theater, think of the lavish settings of Patterson, think of any excess bankrolled by those morally bankrupt geezers in Crooklyn.
Now, any of you catch the back cover of the Feb 1, 2002 WT? The title is "Wise In Their Own Way" and it's about these impoverished African kids who donate to the Society from their lunch money.
From the article:
Unknown to their parents, Emmanuel, Michael, and Uchei, their nine-year-old sister, have been saving part of their lunch money and putting it into the boxes. Where did they get this idea? As soon as the children were old enough to hold money in their hands, their parents taught them to drop some money in the contribution box at the Kingdom Hall...When the boxes were filled, they were opened. The savings totaled $3.13 (US) -- no insignificant sum in a country where the average annual income is a few hundred dollarsThe kid in the picture with the article looks like he should have bought some more lunch with the money. I think about the Bethel speaker at my parent's District Convention -- hubby and wife decked to the nines in Armani, matching rolexes, the leather luggage. You know, what anyone can afford on the typical Bethel allowance (which is something like $20 /wk).
I also remember a comment from a Bethel heavy family friend that a significant percentage of the WT income (donations) comes from Third World countries. Sad indeed.
Wonder how far that $3.13 the kid sent will go towards paying a pedophilia settlement.
smile.
uncy
i will be attending the kingom ministry school... will u?
I will be helping to expose perverts who rape children with Watchtower's blessing.
will u?
as the unfortunate school-age children of jws worldwide, or at least in christendom, face up to two of what must certainly be the most dreaded days of the school year -- today and monday, i don't think it would be remiss to do pay them tribute -- the honor of a brief recognition of some sort, say by the raising of a glass, a prayer, a couple moments' reflection, whatever.. i refer to all those of the trembling knees, quivering lips, moistened eyes and hollow feelings in the pits of their little tummies as they loyally face up to the humiliation of standing aside from the masses of christmas celebrants among their school friends.
how they must agonize over dealing with the incessant questions of their mates about ``what are you going to do this christmas," ``what did santa bring you?
'' -- not to mention listening to the spirited banter of their school friends recounting how much fun they had and what they found under tree christmas morning, etc.
Actually in the US most kids are on their two week winter vacations. So no problem for Witness kids.
It's still bad. Especially the dreaded end-of the year party. I remember the three days of school I always stayed home "sick" for: Halloween, day before christmas break, Valentine's Day.
also, I always hated the birthday parties.
i don't post often and many of you seem to be relatively new to the board, so you may not know me or my situation.
i've been struggling with some the usual issues that are commented on here on a regular basis.
last sunday the elders finally asked me why i haven't been in service for the last two months.
Hi voltaire-
You are in a sticky situation, my friend. And really, there are only 4 options:
1) you could go back (not likely. but, there are LOTS of people who fake it for MANY YEARS with a great deal of success, just going through the motions)
2) you could leave your wife (not very plesant either. this is like abandoning her to the wolves.)
3) your wife could leave you (the elders WILL urge her to do this if you decide to "get some things off your chest" in a meeting with them. Or if you trip up while walking through the minefield they will set for you. Thet will try to get you to say something to hang you with. Plus, 2 on 1 is NEVER fair. That is why meeting with the elders is VERY risky no matter how good you think you are in a debate.)
or
4) you could get your wife out too. And this method involves interacting with her, to convince her to make a major life change. And that is hard to do if you are DF'd or DA'd (the likely outcome from meeting with the elders, period). And if you get DA'd or DF'd, she will probably leave you anyhow.
The best option for that is the slow fade, which involves:
1) avoiding meeting with the elders. Or if they pin you down, then make sure your wife is there as a witness.
2) Explain (only if cornered) your decreased activity as "really busy right now" or "kind of depressed right now." Ephasize that you plan to return to full activity "real soon." Try to stay non-specific as possible.
With slow fade, you give yourself opertunity to keep your wife and get you both out too. Slowly introduce "new light" about the organization to her. Always frame it as a question, something "Gee honey, I just don't understand this. Could you explain it to me." Plenty of examples out there for this.
but, GO SLOWLY S-L-O-W-L-Y. This "new light" about the organization will trigger built-in programming to shut down her mind. But, it can be done. it will not be easy, but there are plenty of resoruces out there to help you, including the collective wisdom on this board. Hope this helps. sorry about the length. but, I have personally heard experiences of those who went in "guns-a-blazin" and regretted it later. Even some I know personally.
It makes me angry that you have to be lie and decieve. But, the GB and WT are the masters of deception. Remember, these amoral assholes will shield child molesters who rape innocent children because it hurts their booksales. It is a "spiritual warfare." They even condone lying when it serves their twisted ends. The elders do not care if they make your wife leave you -- they only care about $$$$ from the booksales. but, no matter how angry this makes you, DO NOT GIVE IN TO THE ANGER AND LASH BACK AT THEM. This puts them in control over you. Instead, vote silently with your feet (like so many are today) and stay in control.
You said you want to go your own way. They will let you go your own way, but will make you wish you didn't. I can only advocate that you weigh the consequences before you act.
but the choice is ultimately yours.
uncy
[edited to fix a few typos and to give credit to JT. He has the BEST advice when it comes to this subject. but, he would say something like this. Only he is a silky smooth brother so it would sound much better. :-)
i don't post often and many of you seem to be relatively new to the board, so you may not know me or my situation.
i've been struggling with some the usual issues that are commented on here on a regular basis.
last sunday the elders finally asked me why i haven't been in service for the last two months.
voltaire-
I've been thinking and planning for more than a year, so I'mI admire your thoughtfulness on the subject. I'm curious, do you have any family and/or friends in the organization you are particularly close to and not prepared to entirely lose? Because you will. I know it feels good to tell the elder's off, but frankly once your lips start moving, the programming takes over and you will get absolutely nowhere.
well prepared emotionally. (Well, sort of. It's still going to be tough)
there is someone who posts here with username "JT". He gives the best wisdom on how to handle the subject. His advise is usually to turn the "theocratic warfare" against them. Avoid the SOB's. If they pin you down, say your busy, a little down, whatever.
Honesty will only hurt you and frankly you are putting them in control by letting them bait you into a gunfight you simply can't win.
The last month I turned time in for was January 2000. As long as I mumble something about "being busy with school" or "really swamped at work," they never push the subject very far. His advice has worked for me.
still in the trenches,
uncy
why i'm not a dub:.
we: maybe we cant solve all of the worlds problems, but weve already solved plenty of them so far, and there are a lot more we can solve if we give more of ourselves to help our fellow humans.. dubs: we cant solve all of the worlds problems, so why bother trying to solve any of them?
well just sell books, and youd better buy them.
farkel -
simply beautiful. but you forgot one -
We: We believe a fundamental right of children should be to grow up innocent and free of ravaging by pedophiles. We will make sure all of those perverts are brought to justice. We shall comfort victims and lionize crusaders like Silentlamb's as the heros they turly are.
Dubs: We will comfort and shield pedophiles becuase exposing them hurts our book sales. We will demonize those like Silentlamb's who try to expose pedophiles. We shall beat victims while lionizing the perverts who rape them. Buy our books or our God Jehovah will KILL you.
-uncy
i was sent this email today from a student i talked to a while back.
the word is getting out and wt dos not even realize it.
just think when dateline airs how many hands will go up.. silentlambs .
hey bill,
Oh yes, I got an A for the project. :)looking forward to reading about her experience in the next WT. :-)
does this remind you of the experiences in the magazines about the loyal JW kids who do a school project for some class. They only use WT publications as references, but still get an "A" anyway and compliments about "quality of scholarship in references." And the kid start 20 bible studies. But, most importantly (and why the experience is worthy of magazine space), the teacher buys 20 copies of some book for the class (or makes hefty donation for 20 books).
you could say that the girl placed 20 copies of the smoking gun BOE letters condoning wanton child raping.
-uncy
Apologize to Arlo Gutherie:
"And the meanest, nastiest child raper of them all sitting there on the group JW bench came over....and offered me a Watchtower.
the stratton township case appears to have a very good chance of success despite the appeals to the supreme court.
but this is obviously not the first time villages and towns have attempted to stop continual disturbance by the jw's.
the quebec court cases that the wt won are examples.. so what makes this particular case different?
Hi Mad and Expat,
From my understanding of the case, I thought that the fact that it applies to EVERYBODY (not just religions) makes it different as well. I could be mistaken. It will be interesting to see how a very conservative Supreme Court will rule on this issue.
